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Hey there,

while reading Byron Katie's book A Thousand Names for Joy last night, (which is the first time I have read any of her material) I discovered that she teaches separation from thought is what brings peace and presence.

This reminded me a lot of Eckhart Tolle and how he emphasizes being present and how thoughts have very little to do with the present moment.

Is enlightenment simply non attachment from thoughts?

The ability to simply be aware of these arising thoughts, but have nothing more to do with them?

If so, then case closed. No need to read anything further. Just simply practice that for your life and see where it takes you.

But I truly believe that "enlightenment" isn't nearly as complicated as some people seem to think it is. Also, I don't believe it needs to be chased for decades.

So what do you all think of this enlightenment definition?

I'd love to get some wonderful replies to this.

Thanks for your time and as I type this I want to say..

Don't think about this post. Simply observe the words that you are reading and look inward to observe how you feel reading that enlightenment is simply being non attached from the thoughts that arise.

How does that feel?

Type that below.


Jared James : D

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Yes my Truthwithin says yes. What a big deal the ego makes of ______________( you name it!
Lovin Life with immense freedom and joy! Joyce

For me, I think it goes deeper than non-attachment to certain thoughts. The biggest trap is the thought of "I" (the self-identification with anything) and enlightenment requires the non-attachment to this "I" thought.

I have done lots of practice with detaching from thoughts of work, thoughts of relationships, etc, etc, but until we have eliminated the "I" thought, we aren't truly free.

It's bigger than ego/personality, habit energy or form (body, material good), but the identification even with our soul can be a trap to keep us bound. The Buddha talked about "Anatman" or non-self, beyond all ideas of self at all. Even Jesus talked about --and lived and died-- moving beyond self into oneness with the Universal, Undifferentiated Source.

I've studied Ramana Maharshi, whose practice of self-enquiry leads beyond the self to the Universal Self. I have had moments of realizing that the Self (Source/Spirit/God) is Who I AM, but I am still here, so there must be still some realization work to do. (The fact that I wrote "I" three times in the last sentence is a clue that I have work to do! LOL)

Cool discussion, which brings me back to the awareness of who I am not...

This thing about enlightenment being about seeing thoughts as just illusions that are to just be transended as Tolle and Katie say is something that I tried and did not have success with myself. I don't know for sure, but I am not an advocate of that idea much. I kind of think that learning to work on mastering thought is more the way to go.
These other philosophies are about just totally letting go and letting whatever is happening to just be without trying to CREATE your reality. It's about totally letting go. I did not find peace in that and underneath that there is this notion that our desires are disturbances to peace, whereas in the LOA approach, our desires fuel us forward to growth.
I don't know for sure, but I think LOA based teachings make more sense.---master thought and CREATE your reality.
Actually, Tom, the ideas and practice of nonattachment help us in using the Law for a greater good than our selfish, ego desires. When we let go of grasping for "our" good, we can participate in a greater good. As we pray for health for others, we call it forth in ourselves. As we envision a world of abundance, freedom and peace, we get to be part of it.

When we realize that our desires are of the self, we can still participate in them, but we hold them lightly and can move into greater expressions of good without being stuck in "having it my way."

For me, having an experience of worldly goods, knowing that they are just as temporary as my own ego/personality, makes them more precious and at the same time, I get to acknowledge the Source/Spirit/God with more freedom, love and devotion. Since it's not just about "the stuff" that I get, it can lead to a greater depth of experience.

But maybe that's just me.

For sure Seamus. The stuff you mentioned is totally valid.
Of course not being attached to the outcome is a valid concept.
It's kinda hard to explain what I mean is a short reply, but what you say is valid.
Wow. Great replies everyone. That's really cool.

After reading them, I'm thinking about the idea that non-attachment to thoughts or beliefs can/will bring you into the present moment.

Now my question is, is presence the same as enlightenment?

If not, what do you feel is the process of going from presence to enlightenment?


i like the definition that abraham hicks give of Enlightenment, it's simply about being up to speed with our desires. here's d process they give:


"The potential for enjoyment is so much more than almost anyone is ready for, because you're not enjoying the contrast that causes you to define and decide. So every defining moment is setting you up for a more satisfying manifestation. Every defining moment. Every single defining moment. Every rascal, every moment of abuse, every moment of misunderstanding, every moment of sickness, every moment of anything unwanted has sharpened your ability to understand. Not only understand the difference between unwanted and wanted, but to allow yourself the experience of having it, you see. That's what true allowing is.
So, never again ask how much am I out of the vortex and how much am I in the vortex. Instead say: I'm out just enough to keep myself rocking and rolling. I'm out enough to keep myself sharp to the point that I really KNOW when I click back into place. That's the best utilization of this contrasting world in which you are involved, but it's also the best balance for a physically focused non-physical energy, you see.
What-is doesn't mean diddly squat! Except that it's the beginning of what's coming next. You live in a time/space reality because it's fun to perceive relationships, it's fun to understand distance, it's fun to understand space. In other words, don't you like being in this room but don't you like knowing that there's outside? Don't you like being on the ground but don't you like seeing your world from the air? Don't you like being on a continent but don't you like knowing the ocean is out there? Don't you like depth? Don't you love the way your eyes can look up close or can look off into the distance? Don't you love this time and space reality? Don't you love the rendezvous that time gives? Don't you love moving through time? Don't you love your awareness of time? Don't you understand, and don't you adore, the benefit of being able to focus? That's what all of this is." -- Abe

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why do you do all of the things you do
in the name of seeking?
meditation, darshan, praying, turning
our mind toward dharma, fasting, vegetarian diet,
donating to green peace, free Tibet, seeking guru
after guru, volunteering at shelters, reading books,
watching movies, listening to lectures,
visiting psychics ... why?


to achieve unity consciousness, you know, enlightenment ...


unity consciousness is great ...
mystical union, being at one with the universe,
the direct experience of the infinite,
bliss, ecstasy, a taste of heaven,
beyond time, beyond space,
beyond the ability of any words to describe,
the peace that surpasseth all understanding ...

but this is not enlightenment
enlightenment isn't when you go there
it is when there comes here
it's not a place you visit and then
remember wistfully and try to return to
it's not a visit to the Truth
it's the awakening of Truth within you
it's not a fleeting state of consciousness
it's permanent Truth realization
abiding non-dual awareness
it's not a place you visit from here
this is a place you visit from there

you started off in one direction
and enlightenment is in another
what you have to do now is figure out
what you really want?
do you want to dedicate your life to the pursuit
of the experience of mystical consciousness?
or do you want to wake up to the Truth of your being?

you have not really made the decision you think you have
one doesn't select Truth realization over mystical union
the way one chooses soup over salad
in fact one doesn't choose enlightenment at all
if anything one is more likely to be the victim of it
like getting hit by a bus

you don't get out of bed one morning
hoping to see Christ's universal form
you'll just be having a typical day
when the universe flashes you
the bottom line is that you are moving toward something
and away from something else
what i want you to do is tell me specifically
what it is that you are moving away from
and what you are moving toward
take your time, there is no hurry
treat it like you are writing
your own personal mission statement
using those two elements:
what you're moving toward
and what you're moving away from
no worries ... all we're doing
is taking a closer look at where you are going
and what you're getting away from
it's not astrophysics
just file your flight plan in the most economical terms
that doesn't sound so hard, does it?
it's not a race, it's just life
there's no finish line, no winners or losers
give that some thought too ...
it all ties in together

allegiance to any spiritual teaching or teacher, any outside
authority, is the most treacherous beast in the jungle,
the first thing we want to do when we begin our journey
is find the companionship and validity that comes with an
established group, and in so doing we effectively end the
journey before it begins ...

the idea is to actually wake up,
not to earn a phd in the the concepts
surrounding the idea of waking up ...

popularity among the soundly asleep may not be the best criteria by which to judge a method for waking up ...

spiritual enlightenment is anesthetic

it is literally self-defeating
it is a battle we wage upon our selves
Truth is a uniquely challenging pursuit
because the very thing that wants it
is the only thing in the way
it is a battle that we will kill to lose
and must die to win
the great enemy is the very self that wages the war
so how can there be victory?
when self is destroyed, who wins?

the unreal has no being
the real never ceases to be
it's your show, it's your universe
there's no one else here, just you
and nothing is being withheld from you
you are completely on your own
everything is available for direct knowing
no one else has anything you need
no one else can lead you,
hold you, push you, or carry you
no one else is necessary to your success
no one else exists

it cannot be simpler, you are asleep
and you can wake up
if you understand that
you'll understand that its the best news
you could possibly receive

if one is asleep to themselves, then what is it they are calling "self"?



Very interesting post


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